Author Topic: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech  (Read 13839 times)

Grail

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2011, 12:27:22 PM »
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I was thinking of doing the legs in Lightwave and then sending it to Shapeways3D to have it printed in 3D but that would end up costing something like $20 per piece and the leg is made up of 3 pieces each. No, I'm not willing to spend $120 on the legs alone

Couldn't you have 1 leg printed and then have the second cast ? Is that chaeper? more expensive? Even possible? I'm still trying to figure this out with making my own parts..
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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2011, 07:26:45 PM »
Hm.  This is turning in to quite the useful discussion for scratchbuilding.

I really should be taking some notes, but I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about regarding the 3D imaging technique.
That won't work because ... paper and plastic don't have the same properties?  Is it still a feasible method for planning shapes ad stuff?

This is a very interesting thread, and I'm really excited to see this thing finished.
I do other things, too.

Grail

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2011, 11:51:43 PM »
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I really should be taking some notes,
I think basically what people are saying,is that the plastic and the paper have different dimensions/corners when folded for example,so it is a necessity to measure and be aware of that fact or compensate for it etc. Some choose to build by measuring shapes on pla plate,then scribing and snapping. Bhm is using 3d software here to sort of make a blue print,or a 3d in real life template,then build from that. If I am correct in assuming what you are doing Bhm?  
Check here Tuba. It explains it all.
http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=2407.0
http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=4496.0
http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=6076.msg62242#msg62242
http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=61585&page=4&pp=15&highlight=mary+jane
For example, He uses Meshlab in the last link where Bhm is using Autotrans. Same shit different shovel. Both work great.

I personally have questions as I am still learning about casting/casters,and usually any 3d printing I am involved in isn't my stage of the process,so I am trying to comprehend printing on my own.(or at least how to have personal projects printed.) PS. Any knowledge on where to go for casting,or if I could email a good caster is appreciated.. maybe master Fichtenfoo?  :unsure:

Anyhow,hope that helps Tuba. Bhm's wip here is pretty sick and great for scratch info. I would just do what he is doing.  ;)
Now let's see those getaway sticks finished Bhm!  :pirate2:  :D

« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 11:58:18 PM by Grail »
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Bhm

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2011, 07:28:35 AM »
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So, I fired up Lightwave Modeler and created a simple shape.
..then turned it off as that was the extent of it's capabilities.  :lol:
You should try rubbing 2 rocks together and wishing your renders out. That is Lightwave V9.5 btw.   :lol:  :razz:  PS. I still keyframe. Mocap is for interns..   :ninja:  :razz:
This is looking cool. I really wanna see what your leg idea is..

To be honest,I end up ditching the use of 3d a lot in this sport.  ^_^  
I often find the regular measure and cut method easier as well as faster. Having said that,the autotrans solution is brilliant.
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I'm sure in certain cases, it's a much more efficient technique.
Going from Zbrush or something like it,to a printed maquette phase goes much better with programs like autotrans. That would be a situation that I would absolutely use 3d to get it perfect.

Dying to see this leg joint system.. Is it still a 3 joint system? Something new?
Ps. I like that you accidentally file and saw your matt. I do too all he time.   :D Also, I know everyone is talking about building the box to be flush with the edges but wouldn't it be kind of a gimme for xtra detail if you DID fold it like the paper craft looking picture? Is there a problem that will surface later that I am missing here?
Cheers.

Yeah, yeah, tough guy. Laugh it up. We'll see who laughs when Pixar sees this WIP and is awed by my 3D skills and hire me.  :angry:
And yes, mocap is for losers :D

I'm working on the legs now, I'll get some screen grabs up as soon as I'm done designing them. It's a 3 jointed (chicken) leg with three pieces per leg.
Oh, yes. You'd have to be super human not to gouge the hell out of your mat. I rotate mine sometimes just so I don't wear one edge out completely. Sad but true :(

Couldn't you have 1 leg printed and then have the second cast ? Is that chaeper? more expensive? Even possible? I'm still trying to figure this out with making my own parts..
Yes, you could have one set printed and then cast one if you have the casting tools and supplies. But to be honest I like shooting from the hip when doing this. That's why I'm going back and redesigning all the time. I haven't done stuff like this before but whenever I plan something, I always change everything when I get to doing it. It's just how I work. Being flexible and not seeing plans and designs as set in stone isn't always something good, though. I piss my bosses of all the time by ruining their plans when executing them. To me, though, the end result is what matters.
What I'm trying to convey here is that for ME it's not a good way of doing things. I prefer seeing the outlines and then design the details free from planning constrains when creating it.

And that's why this technique will probably suit my style better.

When I thought about the casting bit I just saw a bunch of extra steps that adds to the complexity of the work flow. Then you have mirroring issues unless both legs are exactly the same on both the right and the left. I mean adding extra steps just adds space for problems to occur IMO. It's not a bad idea though. Shapeways ultra detail materials actually enable you to hand over extremely detailed 3D models and then have them come out exactly like it. It's just damned expensive.

That won't work because ... paper and plastic don't have the same properties?  Is it still a feasible method for planning shapes ad stuff?
First of all, Grail's links are excellent. If I were you I'd start off using a simple 3D program like google's Sketchup if you want to get started. Not a good idea if you want to do more advanced stuff later on, though. I'd go with something like Blender (which is also free) if this is something you're going to pursue later on (for hobby purposes). It's not at all hard, it just LOOKS daunting. Blender has an excellent set of video tutorials that'll get you started.
The hard part is getting stuff to LOOK good once rendered. And that's for 3D losers like Grail. And nobody likes those elitist jerks anyway. Don't become Grail.  :razz:

Anyway, here's a quick diagram: (Figure 1=Just bending and filling the gap. Figure 2=Cutting loose and gluing together)

The negative offset adds up between parts. An adjoining piece could become, say, 0.5mm to wide due to negative offset between to glued parts.
It's still a feasible way off DESIGNING your parts and for "rapid" prototyping. I mean, a paper version could give you a direct 3D reference when complete to see if e.g. the size of a planned part looks right when designing.

I think basically what people are saying,is that the plastic and the paper have different dimensions/corners when folded for example,so it is a necessity to measure and be aware of that fact or compensate for it etc. Some choose to build by measuring shapes on pla plate,then scribing and snapping. Bhm is using 3d software here to sort of make a blue print,or a 3d in real life template,then build from that. If I am correct in assuming what you are doing Bhm?  
Yes, exactly. What I'm trying to achieve here is two fold:
1: Getting a 3D view of the outlines of the part I'm creating.
2: Getting those outlines quickly and seamlessly on plastic so that I can get it glued up and ready for detailing as quickly as possible.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 07:37:57 AM by Bhm »

FichtenFoo

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2011, 08:04:33 AM »
This is so funny because it's almost opposite of how I do things. Granted I do measure, create the occasional sketch and such, but I'm more of an eyeballer than anything else.

The only time I do anything like this is to have a friend who knows solidworks create some of the more difficult to create parts for me to be 3d printed based loosely on vector art plans I make. My next release will have my first 3D part!
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Bhm

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2011, 08:51:09 AM »
This is so funny because it's almost opposite of how I do things. Granted I do measure, create the occasional sketch and such, but I'm more of an eyeballer than anything else.

And that's why you're the one churning out awesome kits and quality work while I'm stuck ruining other peoples designs :D

FichtenFoo

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2011, 10:56:40 AM »
Well... I find it to be WAY easier to design something new than to modify something existing. Far less square pegs and round holes.
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Grail

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2011, 10:50:01 PM »
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This is so funny because it's almost opposite of how I do things. Granted I do measure, create the occasional sketch and such, but I'm more of an eyeballer than anything else.
I agree. I eyeball pretty much everything too. Mostly because I really enjoy this sport (calling it a sport now) ;) and I like the happy accidents that happen from just going ahead and trying stuff. Computers and rules in daily life can suck the life out of a guy sometimes too,so I like that I can unplug a little when I model.
Even though I'm online looking for reference,talking on FFF etc  ^_^
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Well... I find it to be WAY easier to design something new than to modify something existing. Far less square pegs and round holes.
Spoken like a true master. I wish. I still find modding easier. (when not in my 3D element for work etc) I haven't got my scratch chops up to the point that it becomes easy yet.  :doh: I find it really difficult to make parts. I have just learned that a lot of rounded parts I can sculpt from milliput etc. Totally missed that until recently reading some stuff Luca wrote. I was often asking myself"But how was that rounded armor piece constructed with pla plate??"  :embarrased:  :doh:
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Oh, yes. You'd have to be super human not to gouge the hell out of your mat. I rotate mine sometimes just so I don't wear one edge out completely. Sad but true
As to not bruise my fragile ego,I'm going with "I AM super human,so I gouge and wreck my matt from my super humanness." That way I can say it's intentional and I'm not just flailing away at my table  :D Fun wip man. I think you will get + karma. It would be even better if after all this you came out with paint skills like a 5 yr old. I will totally give you mad props if you do.  :lol:  OK. Back on track.
This is  going great. Really like the discussion in this wip.  Gotta see the legs.  Good luck for now.
Respek.


« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 10:52:45 PM by Grail »
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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2011, 08:32:32 PM »
I prefer aves apoxie sculpt to milliput actually. I find it more smooth and forgiving. Although my milliput might have been old. Also don't underestimate the power of Bondo! All of my releases with complex curves use it. In fact the hovertank and fish couldn't have been done as simply without it. Sands easier than milliput or aves, but nice and durable. Downside... stinks BAD. I use it in my spraybooth or outside.
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Grail

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2011, 12:58:30 AM »
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Also don't underestimate the power of Bondo! All of my releases with complex curves use it. In fact the hovertank and fish couldn't have been done as simply without it.
This is great info. I didn't know that. I'm actually not bad with bondo. My dad owned an autobody shop.
I have endless hand sanding experience as a 10and up yr old doing free labor  :lol:


Do you find that it flakes at all? For example if you drop a part,does it just shatter? **note. I may have a different idea of what "bondo"is . Being form elsewhere and now living in America, I find sometimes we are talking about different things and using the same names. Like bondo here may not be bondo for me.. if that makes sense?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 01:01:51 AM by Grail »
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FichtenFoo

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2011, 06:47:56 AM »
It's probably the same stuff. I try to not drop things, but as with any material, one needs to be careful. It can flake at the very edges where it may be spread too thin over a non-bondo material like plastic, but the Bondo red spot-glaze putty that I use on everything is perfect for that. As for shattering... I haven't had that problem. I find it to be kinda flexible if thin. Check out the MHT pics below. The rear armor plate over the thrusters was entirely bondo.

http://fichtenfoo.net/blog/tag/martian-light-hovertank/
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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2011, 10:43:17 AM »
This has turn out to be an interesting thread on scratch building indeed.  Personally, I wouldnt set a mold to cast a leg or an arm.  It's too expensive and it's messy.  I assume that you'll be adding details onto the parts before casting, which means you'll want to use some high density resin and ultra fine molds; something suitable to cast 5star kits range is mighty expensive (well at least for me  :P).  We are talking about a can of hi-cast white resin is already around $50usd (of course you don't have to use it all, but still, it's shell life is short).

I would invest on some rotary tool if you are serious enough to make sanding and drilling a lot easier.  You'll want something at the range of 3000-5000rpm.  I actually use my air pump to power my rotary tool.  The Silair 15A is plenty strong for plastic work.

Most of my tools and filling materials are basically from tamiya (free stuff can't complain), but for some epoxy or putty stuff, tamiya just works better due to it's higher density and lower temperature to set.  Can't say the same for their thinner tho... :ninja:

Bhm

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2011, 11:34:10 PM »
Alrighty! A small update:

My computer crashed. I mean it like self combusted, which put an end to my 3D to paper printing days. That put me off working on the mech for about a month,. Then I started doing prototypes of the legs and it ALL ended up looking like crap. It didn't matter what I did. Either the angle would have to be totally messed up or the proportions would have to be something ridiculously ugly. That pissed me off even more. Then it struck me that I was going at it from the wrong angle...
It's all in the hips.

Voilà!

The idea is that the attachment points for the thigh has to be behind the center of mass, i.e the pivot point for the torso. This allows the lower leg to be longer and thus gives the "proper" chichken leg look. We'll see if I'm right or wrong...





Here are some "assembled" shots. The leg bit is just there for reference.




Anyway, I also decided on scale and the setting. I'm thinking of going with UN colors and I've decided on the acompanying figure:


The idea is that the dude is running diagnostics on the mech. Then I thought that wireless communication might not be the smartest solution considering the jamming / surveillance risk so a fat cable will be needed.


I used three different thicknesses of lead wire and some epoxy putty for the details.



And since the scale is 1/35 the minigun would have to be .50cal so I got some ammo for that too:



Sorry for not commenting and showing the proper step by step as I usually try to do but it's hard without a proper computer.
I've placed a massive order for tools, paints, pigments and diorama supplies since I got a substantial bonus. I already have a shitload of stuff but you can't have enough, eh? :D
The last 6-7 years have been horrible economy wise but now I'm making good money and I've been wanting a huge tool set for a long time and now is that time. I also know that the tools don't make the mechanic but it's damned nice having every tool/accessory at hand when you need it.

Thanks for reading!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 11:40:49 PM by Bhm »

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2011, 02:38:11 AM »
Glad you're still working on this, looking forward to what you've come up with for the legs :)

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2011, 04:56:49 AM »
How did I miss this thread...???  Amazing work there Bhm!

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2011, 05:06:59 AM »
Glad to see more work on this its looking really great Bhm! Love the design of the mech
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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2011, 12:40:41 PM »
Looking good, glad to see you back on this!
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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #57 on: April 18, 2013, 06:08:40 AM »
Sorry for bumping an old thread, but id love to see any updates.
Blog - Under construction: http://jdmjunkyard.wordpress.com/

Bhm

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Re: Kitbashing (like a boss): Mech
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2017, 07:42:21 AM »
AND FROM THE GRAVE I REVIVE THEE *thread necromancy*



Small gallery: http://imgur.com/a/aL476

For anyone left who miiiiiiiight remember I actually got around to working on this fucker!
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 07:45:03 AM by Bhm »