Leaving plastic kits for full scratchbuilding... help?

[hobbyguy]

*Sigh*... where to begin?

I quit my job yesterday. I got some "side savings" to keep me at home without working for 16 months. So I decided to spend some time at home building kits. I looked at my snapped kits that are waiting to be worked on... and I... gave up.

I have always been picky at certain things, and kits being accurate to the original lineart (anime designs) is one of them. I love Bandai's Gunpla kits, but I have always wanted to have kits that are accurate or close to the original designs.

Bandai always redesigns many parts like shoulders, feet, etc. I have tried to correct these things to my liking, but I either end up damaging the kit, or sand and cut so much that I do think scratchbuilding is the only way to get it done.

When I say scratchbuilding, I mean full scratchbuilding. It's the only option I have, unless Bandai decides to make kits the way I wish they would make them (pffbt! HAHAHAHAHAHA! ).

I want to make my builds just like the lineart or at least "refined". I know that a lot of designs are flawed. I mainly want to focus on 1/144 scale, but soon move to 1/100.

I'm a total beginner at scratchbuilding, but I have to learn. I already have the "Gundam Scratchbuilding Manual", but I need some help.

What's the easiest way to full scratchbuild? Using plastic sheets? Clay?

What other materials are a must for scratchbuilding?

Any tips or anything I should remember when I'm building?

All help will be greatly appreciated. I really want to move forward.

I will post other questions here.

Thank You.

[Funaka]

I'm guessing this thread will be moved to model help, but in the meantime... 

I have this series of articles which I hope will help:

http://gamerabaenre.com/funaka/?page_id=254

I scratchbuild *parts* of models so I've never done one from the ground up, but I think what I've got there will help. There are 5 pages so keep taking the links at the bottom of the page to the next page. You can also look over my Works in Progress pages for my models on my site as well as all the ones on this forum, especially Ezechiel's

http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=4334.0

MRF's

http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=4737.0

and Zluca's

http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=3285.0

[Ezechiel]

I think using a kit as a base is a good way to start, at least that's how I did:
http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=365.0
You might not use all the parts but at least you'll have something to start with, it makes the whole thing less daunting.

And plastic card, Tamiya extra thin cement, super glue and epoxy are the basic materials.

[tetsujin]

I have always been picky at certain things, and kits being accurate to the original lineart (anime designs) is one of them. I love Bandai's Gunpla kits, but I have always wanted to have kits that are accurate or close to the original designs.

Bandai always redesigns many parts like shoulders, feet, etc. I have tried to correct these things to my liking, but I either end up damaging the kit, or sand and cut so much that I do think scratchbuilding is the only way to get it done.

When I say scratchbuilding, I mean full scratchbuilding. It's the only option I have, unless Bandai decides to make kits the way I wish they would make them (pffbt! HAHAHAHAHAHA! ).

I can relate completely.  I'm very rarely excited about a Bandai release any more because I've become too cynical about the results...  And a desire to fit the lineart, and a complete lack of faith that Bandai will ever do this, is exactly what motivates my work on the 1:100 Zaku Kai...

I want to make my builds just like the lineart or at least "refined". I know that a lot of designs are flawed. I mainly want to focus on 1/144 scale, but soon move to 1/100.

Initially my plan was to do my Zaku Kai in 1:144...  But I ultimately went with 1:100 and I think it was absolutely the correct decision.  I think, particularly being somewhat inexperienced at scratch-building, it's very important to work in a larger scale.

Basically, let's suppose anything you ever do is going to be half a millimeter off...  That means when you center a part to see if it's symmetrical, you're half a millimeter off, when you measure it to see if the curvature is right, you're half a millimeter off, etc...  These small errors compound.  Now, if you're dealing with a part that's 6mm wide as opposed to 10mm wide, these errors are all the more significant because your part is smaller.  It's for this reason that I believe it's a lot easier to work in a larger scale.  You can make the same magnitude of error and it will be less significant than if you'd been working small.

What's the easiest way to full scratchbuild? Using plastic sheets? Clay?

I'm always grappling with this one myself.  As far as I can tell it really depends on the part.  For instance, boxy parts I usually plan out on graph paper, then copy the pattern to styrene sheet, cut it out, and assemble it.  (I did this with the Zaku chest and backpack, as well as the Scopedog parachute pack...)  In some cases it's easier to leave a few faces out and then just fill them in with epoxy putty or polyester putty, instead of using plate for every single face...  For curvy parts I usually set up a series of cross-sections and fill in the gaps between them with epoxy putty.  For "solids of revolution" (i.e. parts that could be produced on a lathe) I usually create a template to turn uncured polyester putty about an axis, and then spin the axis on a drill press or Dremel to smooth it out afterward...  (I don't have an actual lathe...)

Another angle I'm constantly grappling with, is how much planning is sufficient, and how much is too much.  For the Zaku I spent a lot of time refining the 3-D design before building anything.  On other projects I simply roughed out the design on graph paper and started building as soon as I could.  It seems the trick is to be precise enough when you finally get around to building that you don't have to do it again - but past a certain point, being precise in your plans stops being useful, because you're limited in how precisely you can build and measure, and at a certain point I think the whole process just breaks down to eyeballing the thing to see if it looks right, and tweaking it if it's not...

For materials - I mostly use 1mm styrene plate (thick enough to be reasonably rigid, thin enough to be relatively easy to cut precisely and mitre-join if necessary), various useful sizes of styrene strip, rod, and specialized shapes, epoxy putty (Aves is very good stuff), and polyester putty (Bondo, for instance)

I'm a big fan of the scratchbuild manual you mentioned - the tough thing about that book is that he makes it all look so easy...  Like building the Zaku head three or four different ways, and they all come out perfect - and we don't see all of the however many hours it took him to actually do all that.  Fabulously inspiring all the same.

You've got to talk to Bawoo and see if he has photos and information about his various builds that he can share.  He built a 1:100 Hi-Zack that was my favorite example I'd use whenever I needed to convince someone of the virtues of polyester putty...  (It was a vintage kit build, but with extensive modifications for looks)  He also scratch-built a 1:100 Hazel conversion set, which was one of the first Hazel kits out there, I believe...  His site's been down for ages but he's been hanging around here lately, so maybe if you ask nicely he can give you some information on what he did, and how...

I mentioned before that I think different parts often call for different techniques - for this reason, I think I could help you better if you were to ask about a specific part you want to build.  I could tell you about different ways I would approach it.  I'm still working out the best way to approach these things myself, as evidenced by the difficulties I face in building Zaku parts...  So I wouldn't always have one answer "that's how I'd do it" - because if I tried it myself I might find it didn't work out, and go back and try another approach...  but I'd have some ideas, I guess.  :)

[hobbyguy]

I have already chosen the first kit to scratchbuild, the Zaku II. It's one of my most favorite designs of all time. There are so many variations! 

I'm already drawing up the plans for this scratchbuild. I'm still set on scratchbuilding in 1/144 scale.

I have a question: How do I cut round shapes on a styrene sheet? I've tried using a knife, but it always comes out messed up (misshaped). Should I cut and then sand until it's the way that I need it to be?

[mtomczek]

The best way for circles that I've found is to put some masking tape down on your styrene then draw out your circle using a circle template.  I then cut out the circle as close the lines as possible, and once its out sand it down smooth to match the pencil line I drew earlier.

[FichtenFoo]

I use the plastic/metal circle (and oval) templates from a craft or drafting supply store. Then put a needle in a pin vice and  scribe the circle onto sheet styrene until the shape pops out. Round and round and round.... works great for .040 and less thick sheets. Here's some pics where I've used these templated circles.

Leaving plastic kits for full scratchbuilding... help?

Leaving plastic kits for full scratchbuilding... help?

[hobbyguy]

I'll order some of those templates.

I have been suggested Aves epoxy putty, is that good for sculpting?

This may be a stupid question... When I start sculpting/scratchbuilding, should I start with the body?

[clee-cm]

There is so much good advice on this thread...

If you are planning to do some serious scratch building, buy the large size styrene sheets. Evergreen Styrene will sell 12x24 inch sheets in various thicknesses, this will save you lots of money. When you are done with all of the scraps that are left over, don't throw them out; save the scraps of styrene that you cut off into a small plastic container, you can always use them as filler or some thing else on a different project down the road.

Even if you are only going to scratch build 1/100 scale models, you will still be able to save plenty of money.

Also, learn how to heat form plastic into different shapes, once you practice a few times you will get the hang of it.

[tetsujin]

I'll order some of those templates.

I have been suggested Aves epoxy putty, is that good for sculpting?

Depends, I think, on what you're sculpting and what sort of sculpting you're used to.

To me, Aves often feels a bit too soft for sculpting.  You can get something to a nice shape but then the tiniest nudge will deform it again - or it could droop under its own weight before it cures.  Still, lately Aves is what I've been using to create parts.  I think it's worked out pretty well.

One problem I have had with Aves (and specifically on my Zaku's shoulder armor) is that I would do one application of Aves for the basic part, and then another to adjust the curvature of the surface or fill in small depressions - and when sanding the part later on the second application would chip off of the first.  I have heard that this is mainly a problem when the second application is made too far along in its curing process - if the Aves has lost its "sticky" feel then it won't bond well.  (Which is frustrating because Aves is so much easier to work with after it's firmed up just a bit IMO...)  So lately I've been trying again - building parts, making sure that when I use additive sculpting with Aves that I get the second layer on while it's still fresh.  This seems to be working out pretty well...

This may be a stupid question... When I start sculpting/scratchbuilding, should I start with the body?

As long as you've worked out scale plans, I don't think it matters where you start...  Though if you're new to scratching it couldn't hurt to start with something relatively quick or easy - either increasing your chances of getting it right the first time or making it simpler to start over if you have to...  I started with the chest block and backpack on my Zaku build - and wound up starting over several times because of various mistakes or problems with the resulting parts.

Starting with a central area would also mean that you could add on various extremities (arms, legs, etc.) and immediately have some context to put them in...  which is generally fun, at least.  If you're not sure about the proportions you've chosen, having that context may also be useful as a way of working out what needs to change...


As for round shapes - I have an Olfa circle cutter that works pretty well.  The real challenge is usually to center and align this disc onto a rod - I generally can't get that right without sanding down the disc on the dremel after the center hole is drilled.

[hobbyguy]

I've been out and enjoying life for the last few days. I have only drawn the front view of the chest, waist, and thighs. The Zaku will be 4-1/2 inches tall (1/144 scale).

Now I'm having second thoughts. While I really do want to full scratchbuild, Ezechiel's comment about using a kit as a base is catching my attention. Who knows? Things might change, I'm just looking for the best results.

Another stupid question: Do my drawn plans for my Zaku scratchbuild have to be 4-1/2 inches, or do I just use the drawn plans as reference?

[tmajor]

Do my drawn plans for my Zaku scratchbuild have to be 4-1/2 inches, or do I just use the drawn plans as reference?

However you do them, the set of drawings you work from should be the same size as your model. That way you can easily measure off them and use them as templates.

If your drawing them using a computer you can do them as big you want and just output them to size. Actually making large drawings that you scale down will make any discrepancies less distinguishable.

[tetsujin]

I've been out and enjoying life for the last few days. I have only drawn the front view of the chest, waist, and thighs. The Zaku will be 4-1/2 inches tall (1/144 scale).

Now I'm having second thoughts. While I really do want to full scratchbuild, Ezechiel's comment about using a kit as a base is catching my attention. Who knows? Things might change, I'm just looking for the best results.

Another stupid question: Do my drawn plans for my Zaku scratchbuild have to be 4-1/2 inches, or do I just use the drawn plans as reference?

Usually when I draw plans, I draw them to the size that I'm building the parts - this makes it easy to just photocopy the drawings and use them as a starting point for cutting out shapes.  (For my Zaku build, I used the drawn plans first to establish the overall measurements and proportions of my build - and refine them, and then also as the basis of templates for actually creating the parts.)

However, if you draw the plans larger and then scale them down when photocopying (or scanning/printing), then the resulting plans will tend to be more precise.  If any line you draw winds up as much as 1/2 mm off in one direction or another, you're better off drawing large and scaling down by half, as that will cut the error down to 1/4mm.  Plus I think it can be easier to flesh out details when you're working larger, even if you're ultimately going to be building small.  Even if you can't ultimately cut the parts with that kind of precision, getting the best start you can is a good thing...  Sometimes I do this when I'm trying to flesh out a single part in more detail...

Since your build is going to be 4.5" tall, you could scale it up by 2 on the plans and still fit the whole thing on an 8.5" x 11" piece of paper...

[Zircor]

What programs do you guys use to do your drawings in?

As I'm an engineering student, I'm trying to (remember how to) use Inventor and Autocad to do some drawings for a project I'm working on.

[clee-cm]

What programs do you guys use to do your drawings in?

As I'm an engineering student, I'm trying to (remember how to) use Inventor and Autocad to do some drawings for a project I'm working on.

Personally, as a web/graphic designer I use photoshop and illustrator to lay out my ideas, I do my best to keep my proportions accurate. Like Tetsujin, I also use the plans that I create as a guide to cut out the pieces of styrene.

[hobbyguy]

Things have changed.

I was focused on scratch building in 1/144 scale, but I have now chosen to build in 1/100 scale. There is so much detail that's hard to reproduce on something so small. I understand now why it is that people work in larger scale.

I have also been looking into 3D printing, then resin casting the parts. The problem is I can't find a service that 3D prints using ABS plastic. I have found services that print using resin, but the surface isn't good. It would require a lot of sanding which might end up with misshaped parts.

Anyone know of a good 3D printing service that uses ABS plastic?

Oh yeah, does anyone here own a NWSL chopper 1 or 3? Does the blade hold still or does it move around a lot? The reason I ask is because I heard that it makes crooked/slanted cuts.

Thanks to all who shared such great info on this thread.