Formula 409 and Stripping Models

[FichtenFoo]

I keep getting questions about 409 so I posted an article about it on my website. If anyone knows of alternatives to 409 (different products in different countries) please let me know as most of the questions I get are about that. I'll add them to my article. Thanks!

http://www.fichtenfoo.com/02GiantRobots/02c-Formula409.html

Also check out:

http://www.formula409.com

[jubjub64]

Wow, what timing!  I was about to ask how you you cleaned your technical pens.  I just got some recently and they have been clogging.  I was hoping there was an alternative to that expensive cleaning solution.
Thanks!

[FichtenFoo]

I got a bottle of the cleaning solution at a clearance sale for 50 cents. It's actually far superior to 409 for pen cleaning. Really eats the ink away.

[fugu]

Hi Boss :)

I'd just like to post an update on the 409 post I did before

I just wanted to add my two cents here to see if someone has had more experience about using this than me and what the long term consequences are. Ever since I first saw the chrome stripping tutorial over at Tims' I've been trying to get some 409 myself. Never did get some.
So after bumping into the Clorox company site I thought that since Clorox made bleach as well that 409 may be a variant. So I went and dunked a gold and silver chrome sprue tree into some household undiluted Bleach and left it for 24 hrs. The chrome came off easy. I then dunked a badly painted double gatling. The acrylic came off easy but I had trouble with the Mr. Surfacer, that left rubbery gunk. The next item I stripped is my V-Gundam which has been sitting disassembled in a tumbler of bleach for over a week now as I'm trying to see how long it will take to melt something including the polycaps and the rubbery/PC stuff molded to it.
This is basically what I'm using for paint stripping:
Zonrox Bleach (Fresh) 250ml
HSR - 826
Active Ingredients:
Sodium Hypochlorite 5.25% by wt.
Inert Ingredient 94.75% by wt.

The product I use in the Philippines is plain Zonrox brand bleach(also comes in scented variants). Essentially it seems to do the same job as 409 and may be a bit stronger.

This is what I've found out so far:(May need to be brushed to remove residue)

1. Will strip chrome (tested on Leopard Destroy gold sprue and Serpent 144 silver), no gunk after 24 hours. Plastic is fine.

2. Will strip Acrylic: Aquaeous(Mr. Acrylic) and Tamiya. No gunk after 24 hours. Plastic is fine.

3. Will NOT remove any ENAMEL (Academy and Tamiya) though it does have interesting weathering effects I'm currently experimenting with :)

4. Turns Mr. Surfacer White into sticky gunk(very hard to remove   )

5. Left styrene, V2 Gundam parts, Gundam Wing parts in covered tumbler of said bleach product for 2 to 3 months. Bleach seems to have turned bad. Plastic is fine.

6. Dunked badly painted V2 Gundam. Removed Acrylic paint, mottled weathering on Enamels, Mr. White putty and Tamiya Basic putty has some whitening but looks fine.

--I haven't tested it as a tech point pen cleaner but my guess is it will affect the paint unless it's really, really cured or heavily diluted. I wouldn't advise it.

Oh yeah, follow all the precautions on the packaging.

[FichtenFoo]

Good info to know for those wanting to strip chrome. I added a link to this thread in the article for info such as this. Since it's bleach and not an overall 409 substitute, I don't want to add it to the article and confuse people.

[Asmodeous]

I have some strong rust breaker at the house called Open and Shut.  Not very easy to come by but my Father works at a company and was able to get a couple of cans.  Anyway I sprayed some parts with model masters spray enamel and then tried to strip it off with 409 and after 2 days of continued soaking the 409 didn't touch it.  I sprayed the Open and Shut on the parts and it litterally washed the paint off.  After a little rubbing I was able to fully strip the parts back to the plastic.  As far as I was able to find there was no side effects on the plastic.  I don't know the cost of the stuff but I can look around.

[FichtenFoo]

Sounds cool!

I'm going to sticky this topic and rename it as the stripping thread.

[Artic Fox]

for paint stripping I use Greased Lightning Engine degreaser and cleaner. That stuff strips anything, I've stripped enamel paints, autmotive paint to a degree, and even krylon fusion, even though it left an interesting etching in the plastic, but I think that was more from the krylon. I've read that this will melt top most layer of skin, so I always wear gloves. I let most models soak for about a week, either because it's strong paint, or I'm too lazy to take it out, but all it takes is some scrubbing and voila.

oh yea, it disolves putty too.

a gallon costs like 5 bucks

[BM2]

I have some strong rust breaker at the house called Open and Shut.  Not very easy to come by but my Father works at a company and was able to get a couple of cans.  Anyway I sprayed some parts with model masters spray enamel and then tried to strip it off with 409 and after 2 days of continued soaking the 409 didn't touch it.  I sprayed the Open and Shut on the parts and it litterally washed the paint off.  After a little rubbing I was able to fully strip the parts back to the plastic.  As far as I was able to find there was no side effects on the plastic.  I don't know the cost of the stuff but I can look around.

Frees rusty nuts, bolts and fittings in seconds.

Lubricates to keep parts moving smoothly and quietly.

Protects against rust and further corrosion.

Prevents breakage of frozen parts.

Non-flammable.

Contains no 1,1,1 trichloroethane or other ozone-depleting substances.

Dielectric strength. Voltage rating in excess of 39,500 volts per 0.1 inch.

OPEN and SHUT is a powerful combination of rust penetrants and capillary action lubricants that quickly penetrates through rust, corrosion, water and dirt to loosen frozen nuts, bolts and other metal parts.
OPEN and SHUT allows you to reuse existing parts by helping to eliminate the bending and snapping of frozen parts.
OPEN and SHUT also provides the lubrication needed for easing metal-to-metal contact. It reduces friction to decrease wear on locks, hinges, cables, chains, wheels and most moving parts. OPEN and SHUT locates and stops squeaks in hard-to-reach places.
OPEN and SHUT leaves a thin protective film that prevents rust and protects parts against further corrosion.

[gemini]

I've used Simple Green to strip acrylics with very good results. works better than 409 :) If any one cars..

[Major Blah]

I've been experimenting with chrome / paint stripping the last few weeks.  For those in Canada, I recommend "Super Clean" (in a purple bottle / container).  This is identical to Castrol Super Clean, I've looked into that.  Eats chrome (and paint) like cookie monster with a bag of chocolate chip cookies!!  

Here's an excellent article on paint stripping:  LINK

[Maschinen Krueger]

I've used Simple Green to strip acrylics with very good results. works better than 409 :) If any one cars..

"I car." :wink:

I've been using simple green to strip ancient paint from old paint bottles. Paint that has been dry for years comes right out after it has soaked for a day or so. I have heard great things about it regarding stripping paint from plastic models. I'll test it on a model to see what happens. A local guy says he has had plastic model parts soaking in the stuff for months with no affect to the plastic. Paint just washes right off if there is anything left after the SG has dissolved it. Only on really thick deposits have I had to use a tooth brush. It even dissolves enamel paints.

It smells good too. I found a gal. jug at Target for around $6. He says you can get 5gal containers at HomeDepot or janitorial supply houses.

[Maschinen Krueger]

A little update on the Simple Green.

I have been testing the effectivness on SG. I took half of the upper hull of an old Merkava mk1 that I built some 15+ years ago. I have been using it as an airbrushing test part, i.e. to check color combinations, paint compatability, airbrush and paint consistencies, etc.

Needless to say, it has probably has at least 8 coats of paint, which were mostly coats of either Tamiya Acrylic or Testor's Enamel from a Spray can, and a possible coat of PlasticKoat Sandable Primer, plus the original base coat which was Testor's Enamel Armor Sand.

After 24 hours the results are in.

The set up. Upper hull soaking paint surface down in about 3/8" of SG in a disposable sealable container.

1. The numerous recent paint colors, last couple of years, slipped right off like skin from a pudding when I pulled the part out. The original base color was slightly pitted.

2. After brisk scrubbing with an old tooth brush, under a garden hose, much of the original 15year old paint came off too! Some was left around details and little corners, but for the most part it was bare plastic. Nice!

3. Not ALL of the original paint scrubbed off. This part then went back into the same tub for a further 24hr soak.

4. After and additional 24hrs soaking in the SG, the remaining original paint scrubbed off with an old tooth brush. The bare plastic looks good as new with a slight matt finish probably due to the original enamel paint biting into the plastic.

5. Pretty amazing if you ask me. A 48 hour soak, to take of 15 year old paint, and the parts are ready to prime and paint again. Plus, the SG acts as a degreaser and the parts don't need any additional washing.

[Captain Obvious]

Okay, here's a question.  After a slight spray can mishap, I have a GM head with WAY too much Tamiya primer on it, to the point that it had pooled in the recesses.  So after a couple hours I put it into 91% alcohol to soak overnight, after that I left it a full weekend in 409, and now I've had it soaking in Simple Green for two days, with little effect (more than 90% of the primer remains).  My question is, am I just being impatient, and need to wait longer, or am I going about it wrong?  Do I need to let the primer completely cure before trying to strip it?

[amessier]

Try getting some acetone it works a whole lot better then 91%alco.   I had the same problem you just had a few weeks ago I just dabbed the part into a small pool of it and I was able to wipe off the blobs of primer.  :oops: It was my frist attempt with priming thur my air brush so I expect some mishappens.   Anyway you should be able to find acetone in any drugstore  check the nail polish remover section. Thats were I got mine.

[gamerabaenre]

Okay, here's a question.  After a slight spray can mishap, I have a GM head with WAY too much Tamiya primer on it, to the point that it had pooled in the recesses.  So after a couple hours I put it into 91% alcohol to soak overnight, after that I left it a full weekend in 409, and now I've had it soaking in Simple Green for two days, with little effect (more than 90% of the primer remains).  My question is, am I just being impatient, and need to wait longer, or am I going about it wrong?  Do I need to let the primer completely cure before trying to strip it?

Tamiya primer is lacquer based, so you will need to use a solvent/lacquer based thinner to strip it.  It'll strip it immediately.  That, or you can sand the pooled area down with sand paper and scribe out the panel line.  But if you are serious about completely stripping it, grab some lacquer thinner from your local hardware shop and wet a paper towel and it'll come right off.

[Captain Obvious]

Thanx guys, appreciate the help.  I'll try both suggestions tonight.

[FichtenFoo]

I've managed to destroy Tamiya Primer with a little alcohol dip. Try that first as it's safer.

[gamerabaenre]

I've managed to destroy Tamiya Primer with a little alcohol dip. Try that first as it's safer.

Well, he did try that first.  Hence the question for an alternative.  

[FichtenFoo]

Heh... missed that. I just worry that lacquer thinner will do more harm than good. What about Easy-off or Castrol Super Clean?