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Old FFForums Archive => Model Help* (Check Stickies and Search First) => Finishes, Decals, and Weathering => Topic started by: DarkChii78 on October 19, 2005, 02:32:56 PM

Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: DarkChii78 on October 19, 2005, 02:32:56 PM
Not really a tool or supply question, but I'll just use this existing topic. The last time I used Future (coincidentally my first time) I had a problem with thick spots. I sprayed one thin coat and let it dry, and noticed that there wasn't "full coverage" on the parts (i.e. it looked like orange peel). I sprayed another coat, and this time I used a little bit more so the part would get covered. After it dried however, there were spots that had build ups of Future. Should I not worry about spraying enough on the parts, and just spray thin coats? Any other useful tips for using Future?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on October 19, 2005, 02:38:16 PM
Thin coats are best I find. Especially when dried inbetween with the airbrush. Get a light source at an angle from where you're spraying so that you can see the sheen of the future as you spray it on the part. This will help you to see where build-ups are.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Jonkokyan on October 21, 2005, 09:27:44 PM
If I do not need to put any decals on the model, do I still need to  spray a thin coat of Gloss Future, then another thin coat Flat Future? Will the Gloss Future effect the Flat Future which is on top?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on October 22, 2005, 06:18:16 AM
You don't have to spray multiple coats, but it's recommended as it provides extra protection. I spray flat over gloss all the time with no ill effects.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Pazu on November 02, 2005, 06:36:57 PM
Question for FF or whoever uses Future as frequently, do you guys thin them? I use it like only once as a gloss coat (it saved my horrid paintjob but I didn't really like it) but I used it stock out of the bottle.

This guy (http://www.scalespot.com/sswelcome.htm) (he is an expert modeler IMO) uses it on his latest build (http://www.scalespot.com/gallery/aircraft/f4g/f4g.htm) and in his in-progress (http://www.scalespot.com/onthebench/f4g/f4g_build.htm) he mentioned (scroll down, Fig. 79) using thinned Future. With Tamiya Acrylic Thinner! Wow, does anyone else do that?

I've had no idea it could be thinned with said thinner. I think its a great idea cos I find the stock Future abit too powerful. :lol:
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on November 02, 2005, 06:48:59 PM
Wow... beautiful build!

I don't thin mine at all but I think Jester thins his with windex. I think he only thins the Future he mixes with flat base though.

How is it too powerful and what problems have you had with it?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Pazu on November 02, 2005, 06:52:49 PM
Its abit thick and dries too fast and doesn't adhere to surface very well with the first spray. Sort of like water on oil kinda feeling. Maybe I just didn't tried hard enough with it, but now knowing that it can be thinned with acrylic thinner kinda breaths new life into my 1 gallon stock. :lol:
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on November 02, 2005, 06:59:52 PM
Ahh... I had the runny problem at first too... my solution is to give it an almost inpreceptual and quick spray for the FFA then dry with the airbrush then add additional coats. This thin spray gives the surface more tooth to hold the subsequent layers. The downside it a slightly textured gloss-coat (not orange peel) which is suitable for decals, does not show up after a flat coat, but not suitable as a final gloss. For a final gloss I'll coat the part till it just looks like it's gonna run.

You can see an example of this texturing on my SD Tallgeese red thing on its head. I didn't do a final gloss there but wanted to leave it glossy. The rest of the kit is flat coated. Also keep in mine the images are larger than the actual kit so the effect is magnified. To the naked eye, it's not so textured looking. I got lazy and didn't do the final gloss on it. :oops:
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Pazu on November 02, 2005, 07:11:03 PM
Quote from: "FichtenFoo"
Ahh... I had the runny problem at first too... my solution is to give it an almost inpreceptual and quick spray for the FFA then dry with the airbrush then add additional coats. This thin spray gives the surface more tooth to hold the subsequent layers. The downside it a slightly textured gloss-coat (not orange peel) which is suitable for decals, does not show up after a flat coat, but not suitable as a final gloss.


Am so glad I am not the only one who thinks so. For me, that is kinda haphazard and my one experience of it was enough to scare me off subsequent attempt to ruin a model at its final stages. :lol: I wonder why the mist coat is so necessary to provide the grip.

Notice also that the 'thinned' Future the guy used kinda appears to have gotten rit of the orange peel effect too (another gripe of mine too). Hm.. think its worth a shot at trying this out.

Thanks for the quick reply FF. :wink:
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: gamerabaenre on November 03, 2005, 10:43:48 AM
I used to thin my future with 91% alcohol.  Then I was told that I didn't need to, and can use it straight out of the bottle.  *shrug*  I haven't really tested it lately in a side by side comparison with straight future and thinned future.  I normally use several layers of future to get to the point where I'm satisfied with the results.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Maschinen Krueger on November 10, 2005, 07:15:11 AM
Matt Swan at  Swanny's Models (http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html) offered me this tip:

"Try adding 20 to 25 percent isopropyl alcohol to your future next time you airbrush a model and see what you think of that result."

Foo,

How long have you let the TFB and FFP mixes store? Does theTamiya Flat Base settle?

Two coats of FFP are cetrainly better than one heavy one. I find it is a delicate balance of PSI and how far the needle is open. My luck has shown me that at 18-20 PSI, unthinned FFP, shot through a medium tip and needle setting results in an even smooth coat. I tried lower PSI 10-15, but the FFP beaded slightly on the surface with the first application. Your results may vary.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on November 10, 2005, 07:24:34 AM
BK: I've let the FFA+TFB mixes store for months. I generally only mix what I need for that model but always have leftovers which I store in 2 Tamiya jars. One is for Flat, and the other is for Satin. When I need more I just add more FFA and TFB to the existing mix. So I suppose it's been in use for years then.

As for settling, it does over a few hours, but a quick shake or stir remedys that.

I've noticed "beading" at lower PSI as well. Moreso than I ever had with using full-force 20-30 psi and a light trigger finger.

I thinned my flat-coat for the Strike and while it went on very smoothly, it took a lot more time/coats to completely flatten the parts. I haven't thinned pure FFA yet, but will try it on my fat-suit which is almost ready for paint.
Title: 50/50 FFA and Tamiya Thinner
Post by: FichtenFoo on December 28, 2005, 09:30:45 AM
I went to the LHS this morning and got some supplies and a medium-sized jar of the Tamiya Thinner which I swore I'd never purchase. My last few FFA coats came out kinda poor compared to my usual coverage so I decided to try the technique mentioned above where you combine 50/50 FFA and Tamiya thinner. It actually worked fantastically. I'm looking forward to trying it over bare paint as opposed to over a prior coat of FFA to see how it covers. It takes a little longer to build up coverage since you've thinned the FFA, but the end result is much better.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Jonkokyan on March 12, 2006, 09:27:55 PM
Can I achieve an extremely super gloss result by adding Tamiya Clear X-22 into FFA?
Like those Qubeley that look glossy, how do they achieve that result?
Thank you for your help
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on March 13, 2006, 05:44:07 AM
Quote from: "Jonkokyan"
Can I achieve an extremely super gloss result by adding Tamiya Clear X-22 into FFA?
Like those Qubeley that look glossy, how do they achieve that result?
Thank you for your help


I wouldn't... I mean you could add it, but that would make the future not work as well. If you do many layers of future you can achieve a high gloss finish.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Saint on March 19, 2006, 03:46:52 PM
Do you thin your TFB when adding it to the FFA?  If you do, how much thinner/windex do you add to it, because it's kinda hard to gauge the flat base since its so thick already.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on March 19, 2006, 03:49:02 PM
No thinning till after it's mixed. Use a baby medecine syringe to measure it all out.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Jonkokyan on March 23, 2006, 05:31:12 PM
Quote from: "FichtenFoo"
If you do many layers of future you can achieve a high gloss finish.

Do I thin the FFA with 99% Isopropyl and spray many layers. Or I should just spray many layers of FFA without thinned it to achieve a high gloss result? What do you recommand?
Thank you
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 23, 2006, 11:55:10 PM
Spray it on unthinned in light coats.  It's on the 'article & tips' page.  I tried it for the first time recently and it works great for a high gloss.  It almost made it worth having to go to wal-mart to get it.  :(
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on March 24, 2006, 09:08:58 AM
I've started thinning it 50/50 with Tamiya thinner. Works great and goes on smoother.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Captain Obvious on March 24, 2006, 09:25:25 AM
Can you use 91% alcohol instead of Tamiya thinner?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on March 24, 2006, 09:56:21 AM
Not sure... I wouldn't though simply because it goes on so thin that alcohol may just strip the undercoat of the Tamiya.
Title: Deep gloss
Post by: pu_rplecow on March 25, 2006, 05:50:51 AM
Anyone here has ever used future to get the super deep gloss kinda look? the kind that people use on cars and the "ghosting" sorta effect? I read somewhere else this guy used like 25 coats of mr super clear followed by polishing with tamiya polishing compound but i think thats overkill for me.. Can it be done with future?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Gundamhead on April 06, 2006, 01:53:00 AM
I tried the super thick gloss/glass look on my Kampfer with straight Future. I did many light coats, and it looked sharp. BUT a day or so later, the future had literally cracked like a broken windshield. Long tiny silver cracks running in long random angles. I'm not sure what I might have done wrong, but I thought I'd warn you. Other than making it thick this one time, I had never had a problem with Future, so no panicking. 8)
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Jonkokyan on April 09, 2006, 09:43:52 AM
If I sprayed a flat coat on my kit, and I made a mistake. Can I make it back gloss by spraying FFA on top of the flat coat?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on April 30, 2006, 09:28:18 AM
I was looking up info on Future Dipping a canopy and Swanny's complete Future added pictures of tons of FFA substitiutes from around the world. Check it out!

http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html
Title: 'Saving your Game' with FFA...
Post by: Jim Morbid on May 08, 2006, 09:14:31 AM
Hello. So I've read so much about FFA these last two days and somewhere along the line I remeber reading that someone was using it to seal a paint job before inking so that fixing any mistakes that would originate from inking wouldn't mess up the paint already laid down. My question is, has anyone tried this successfully, and could you take it one step further and create layers on a Gundam (ie, lets say I got a nice base coat colour scheme down and I want to make sure that when I mess up my digi-camo :oops: I can safely remove it without destroying the paint because the FFA layer between them will keep it ship shape?)

Thanks for letting me rave about the things that keep at nights.

JM
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: gemini on July 18, 2006, 02:39:49 PM
I've been using future straight out of bottle but had a hard time trying to lay on a leveled layer but a 1/2 mix of 91%alcohol definately fixed that(this is one of the best stuff world! I regret buying my tamiya compounds :(  

Question though. How would future compare to Testor's glass cote(laquer base topcoat?)as far as durability? I know that the total overall cost would be uncomparable because future is so darn cheap.
Title: Re: 'Saving your Game' with FFA...
Post by: Major Blah on July 18, 2006, 03:03:14 PM
Quote from: "Jim Morbid"
My question is, has anyone tried this successfully, and could you take it one step further and create layers on a Gundam (ie, lets say I got a nice base coat colour scheme down and I want to make sure that when I mess up my digi-camo :oops: I can safely remove it without destroying the paint because the FFA layer between them will keep it ship shape?)


I think since FFA is acrylic and most of the paint is either acrylic or more agressive, it wouldn't work when you have to strip the top layer.  I think future will get damaged, along with the bottom layer.

I haven't tried it, so this could be a wrong answer.
Title: Re: 'Saving your Game' with FFA...
Post by: pu_rplecow on July 18, 2006, 07:49:08 PM
Quote from: "Jim Morbid"
Hello. So I've read so much about FFA these last two days and somewhere along the line I remeber reading that someone was using it to seal a paint job before inking so that fixing any mistakes that would originate from inking wouldn't mess up the paint already laid down. My question is, has anyone tried this successfully, and could you take it one step further and create layers on a Gundam (ie, lets say I got a nice base coat colour scheme down and I want to make sure that when I mess up my digi-camo :oops: I can safely remove it without destroying the paint because the FFA layer between them will keep it ship shape?)

Thanks for letting me rave about the things that keep at nights.

JM


You can ink on a FFA layer, i've done it before on my RX-78-2 OYW. The first time i did it too. Enamel paints don't affect the FFA at all it seems.. I was using tamiya flat black and tamiya enamel thinner. As for stripping the entire inking after dried and cured.. I'm not sure what a large amount of  thinner would do to a coat of FFA.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Jim Morbid on July 19, 2006, 09:33:28 AM
Thanks for the info purplecow  :)

JM
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: caljuice on September 16, 2006, 10:20:17 PM
What about handpainting FFA, will that turn out fine? I'm just trying to stay away from fumes and toxic chemicals going into my lungs.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on September 17, 2006, 04:24:37 AM
I've used a cotton swab with good results.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: GK on October 06, 2006, 10:28:43 PM
Not really a question, but I read on another forum that FFA can be used to attach/glue canopies to model airplanes. I'll have to get around to testing it, and I have no clue if it'll work or not but it seemed like a nifty peice of info and this seemed like the right place to put it.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Vinny on October 10, 2006, 11:05:12 PM
I'm going to try using the Future stuff, but I just wanted to clarify the steps in doing it.  If I'm understanding things right...
1.  Paint the model.
2.  Put on Future, UNTHINNED, and NOT mixed with flat base.
3.  Do panel lines and decals
4.  Put on another coat of future, this time, mixed with a flat base to desired glossiness.
And to apply it, real quick passes with the airbrush, followed up by drying it with air, and then repeat until an even coat?  
Do I have this right?  Also, anyone have pictures of what each of the different finishes look like on a model?  Glossy, semi gloss, satin, etc?  That's fine if not, but I was wondering what mixture I'd use to get the look of the kits as they appear in the manuals of these Gundam kits.
Thanks!
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: hkmantis on October 11, 2006, 02:37:56 PM
*First post*

Hi, could anyone suggest some other flat base compatible with FFA besides Tamiya?
Here in Montreal, it's practically impossible to get your hands on any products from Tamiya.

Thanks for reading a post by a NOOB
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Maschinen Krueger on October 12, 2006, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: "hkmantis"
*First post*

Hi, could anyone suggest some other flat base compatible with FFA besides Tamiya?
Here in Montreal, it's practically impossible to get your hands on any products from Tamiya.

Thanks for reading a post by a NOOB


FFA is pretty stout stuff, so I don't think other acrylics will react with it as a Matt Coat over the top of the gloss. I love PollyScale Matt. Dead Flat and thins with water. Testor's Acryl Flat/Matt is good stuff too. Gunze will work, bottle or can.

Are you trying to mix Flat with the FFA to creat your own Matt FFA?  That's something else. As far as I know Tamiya is the only hobby line of paints that has a Flat paste like that for matting down gloss colors. Maybe a Matt Gel medium can be mixed, but you're going to have to experiment.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: linkinpark on October 25, 2006, 03:16:40 AM
eh anyone got any idea where can i get the FFA in singapore?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: BobSpamGundam on November 21, 2006, 05:33:41 PM
I have a question, what will happen to the shine of metallic paints if I were to spray flat or satin future (with the Tamiya flat base) over them?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: gamerabaenre on November 21, 2006, 06:26:00 PM
The metallics will look dusty.  Personally, I don't care for the look of a flat coat over metallics.  Flat coats tend to bring out the small metallic flakes and such.  Typical metallic jobs require several coats of gloss for a nice luster.

But with most of these "what if" questions.  It boils down to personal tastes.  Best yo take some spare styrene, or a test model kit, and spray your metallic, then spray flat on one third, semi gloss on another third, and gloss on the last third.  The end product needs to satisfy you.  The best way to do that is to test it out.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: BobSpamGundam on November 21, 2006, 06:31:37 PM
ah I see, thank you for the quick reply, this was in relation to warhammer figures so I suppose I'll just try it out when I get more pipe cleaners for my air brush.     :(
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: D:Fuse on December 11, 2006, 10:39:28 PM
Hi

What is the better quality brand for top coat?  Mr. Super Clear, Top Coat (gunze sangyo) (the one in a can or jar), or the FFA that most people use here and mixed with tamiya flat base?
I know that the FFA is cheaper and you can bulk of it. But I tend to go with the best products that money can buy. So is there a big difference?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Oliphont on December 22, 2006, 07:26:32 PM
I was wondering if anyone here has experimented with different layers of clear coats with different bases (lacquer or acrylic)...

...because i was thinking of FFA'ing a model, washing(enamel wash) and decal-ing, and then making the last coat a flat lacquer clear coat...

...anyone ever try this with sucess?

thanks,
Oli
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: mrmaigo on December 22, 2006, 07:44:53 PM
The lacquer should do a damn fine job of killing the ffa, but if it'll hurt the paint below, no clue
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: D:Fuse on December 22, 2006, 11:02:12 PM
Quote
I was wondering if anyone here has experimented with different layers of clear coats with different bases (lacquer or acrylic)...

...because i was thinking of FFA'ing a model, washing(enamel wash) and decal-ing, and then making the last coat a flat lacquer clear coat...

...anyone ever try this with sucess?

thanks,
Oli


The best way is to find out for yourself by using some scraps plastics to test on. From my experience lacquer coat did not damage enamel paints. But you should test it first just to be safe.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Identity_Chrisis on December 28, 2006, 09:56:26 PM
has anyone had any luck finding future(or its cousin, please specify which) at safeway,smartandfinal,target,or other because i have no walmart/kmart close to me    :cry: it would save a lot of money compared to $5 a mini-can laquer like testors or tamiya :(
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Maxamor on December 28, 2006, 11:29:41 PM
I'm sorry to hear that you have no Wal-Marts near you. I picked some Future up today at Wal-Mark, it was very easy to find.

You could try your luck with Long's Drugs--do you have any Long's Drugs stores around?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on December 29, 2006, 06:24:38 AM
Quote from: "Identity_Chrisis"
has anyone had any luck finding future(or its cousin, please specify which) at safeway,smartandfinal,target,or other because i have no walmart/kmart close to me    :cry: it would save a lot of money compared to $5 a mini-can laquer like testors or tamiya :(


I got mine a few years ago at Target. Look where all the floor cleaners and such are.
Title: thanks
Post by: Identity_Chrisis on December 29, 2006, 12:26:06 PM
thanks for the help, i will check there :lol:
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: mtomczek on December 29, 2006, 01:32:24 PM
Albertsons grocery stores carry it here in California. If you have one near you, its in the aisle with all the cleaning products.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: metal on December 29, 2006, 05:32:31 PM
Quote from: "mtomczek"
Albertsons grocery stores carry it here in California. If you have one near you, its in the aisle with all the cleaning products.


how much did it cost?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Oliphont on January 16, 2007, 10:33:53 AM
OK so ive been having a huge 'modeling block' as to how to finish my MG Crossbone because i am not exactly too pleased with the way the FFA has given the model a glossy finish...

...what i had planned to do was to use a flat lacquer clear coat over the FFA after decaling and panel-lining (done), but after doing a few tests with scraps, it appears that the lacquer has some negative effects on the acrylic coat.

So now i come to you guys asking if there is another product that is a matte/flat acrylic clear coat that would work well in this situation. Or is my best bet doing wat alot of ppl do and get some Tamiya Flat base and applying that to the FFA to get a nice flat finish??

Thanks,
Felipe (Oli)
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on January 16, 2007, 10:42:12 AM
Yeah, get the flat base and use the chart here:

http://www.fichtenfoo.com/02GiantRobots/02c-future.html
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Oliphont on January 16, 2007, 12:24:23 PM
Sounds good, i had seen that tip before but wasnt sure if there were any other alternatives, ill order a few bottles soon.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Oliphont on January 16, 2007, 08:12:00 PM
Ok so i went out today to get the Tamiya Flat Base, now i'm a bit concerned that due to the fact that i am brushing the FFA on that a second coat of Flat FFA (the original coat was untampered with) would make the clear coat too thick overall, and would give it a way too cloudy finish. FF when you made the Tachikoma did you use multiple coats of brushed on FFA with good results? or did you simply do one?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on January 16, 2007, 08:39:27 PM
FFA sucks in pretty good, but I've never brushed on Flat FFA. Test it first. Normally brushed on FFF goes on very nice and thin.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Oliphont on January 16, 2007, 10:02:56 PM
Em k, im gonna have to jump the gun and just apply it on top of the other coat, im sure it wont be too bad of a result even if it clouds a bit. I just dont want the second coat to end up making all the coats too thick in general.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on January 19, 2007, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: "Oliphont"
Em k, im gonna have to jump the gun and just apply it on top of the other coat, im sure it wont be too bad of a result even if it clouds a bit. I just dont want the second coat to end up making all the coats too thick in general.


Did it work? Post your results for all to see/learn from.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Zephorith on February 01, 2007, 06:22:46 PM
Can Tamiya Clear X-22 be used as a substitute for Tamiya Flat Base in order to give similar affects? I don't seem to have any flat base about and I'd prefer to avoid a trip to the hobby store just to pick some up.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Oliphont on February 01, 2007, 06:51:25 PM
Quote from: "FichtenFoo"
Quote from: "Oliphont"
Em k, im gonna have to jump the gun and just apply it on top of the other coat, im sure it wont be too bad of a result even if it clouds a bit. I just dont want the second coat to end up making all the coats too thick in general.


Did it work? Post your results for all to see/learn from.



Ok, so heres the breakdown of what i did. I orignally FFA'ed using a brush (un mixed and unthinned) my model so that i could wash/panel line and decal. I then mixed a mixture of roughly 25% Tamiya Flat Base and FFA to make a Flat FFA. I applied that to the model using a brush, and the end result was a nice flat finish, not too cloudy or thick. The only thing was that the flat finish tended to get paint rub off much easier, but with little posing, that shouldnt be a problem.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on February 01, 2007, 07:12:29 PM
Quote from: "Zephorith"
Can Tamiya Clear X-22 be used as a substitute for Tamiya Flat Base in order to give similar affects? I don't seem to have any flat base about and I'd prefer to avoid a trip to the hobby store just to pick some up.


No... Tamiya Clear is just that... a clear paint for topcoating. I've found it to be too thick and not nearly as good as FFA. Flat Base is a gritty boogery thick substance that when mixed with gloss paints and clearcoats gives them a flat sheen.
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: mrmaigo on February 17, 2007, 04:08:03 PM
Is Tamiya Flat Base suposta be so thick? I'm having trouble mixing it. Maybe its just had too long to settle?
Title: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Amalga on February 25, 2007, 06:22:45 PM
Hm...

Something I've been wondering after reading all these posts... if I were to substantially thin the Future (either using Tamiya Acrylic Thinner or 91% alcohol), would that be as glossy as unthinned Future?
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Oliphont on March 22, 2007, 08:14:51 PM
Haven't posted in a while, nor havent worked on any of my models in the last month or so...

...heres the story:
My finished MG Xbone...that i slaved a few weeks over, after sitting on my desk for a month got ruined. TURNS OUT...that FFA reacts badly with heat. I kept it close to my drafting lamp since i finished. And when i decided to dust it off, i realized the FFA began spotting, yes there are now white spots where it should be clean. Just to warn you guys, dont keep any FFA'ed models near any form of heat  >.<

Anyways, is there any way to strip my FFA with alcohol or something? And to not ruin the paint below? The paint below was acrylic btw
Title: FFA ruining my panel lining
Post by: beertax on May 16, 2007, 02:42:39 PM
Hello all,

After an initial FFA clear coat, I inked the panel lines using a Pigma Micron 005 pen.  Than I FFAed over the panel lines so I could get ready to do decalling.  However, I've discovered that the FFA ruins some of my panel lines by running them down the surface, as if acting line a thinner.

Should I wait several hours for the ink to "dry"?  I know that, over a clear coat of FFA, the ink can be wiped off even after hours.  But will waiting a while help the ink stick to the surface?  Or am I just using the wrong type of pen?

Any help appreciated
Title: Re: FFA ruining my panel lining
Post by: FichtenFoo on May 16, 2007, 03:08:43 PM
You need to let the ink dry longer... and if that doesn't work then the ink isn't "waterproof" and will always run. The solution is to use an airbrush for FFA.

I'll also be merging this thread with the FFA thread. PLEASE POST IN A PROPER STICKY OR EXISTING THREAD IF THERE IS ONE. THIS IS YOUR SECOND WARNING.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: oteebzo on May 19, 2007, 06:34:56 PM
Is oil paint water proof? and will it run?
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on May 19, 2007, 06:42:50 PM
Is oil paint water proof? and will it run?

Yes. Not when it's dry.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: psycho_killer on July 26, 2007, 05:23:54 AM
i'm having a problem while coating with future for painting the panel lines.
I use tamiya flat blue, after i finished painting i want to coat it using FFA for panel lines, but it turns out the color have change. At first i think because the FFA is clear so there will be a slight color change, but as i mix FFA with tamiya Flat base (30% tamiya flat base) unthinned, i still can't get the original flat color. after the FFA coat the color change and it doesn't have a deep flat color like it used to. When i tried adding more Tamiya flat base i noticed white spot on the surface. What is wrong?
Is it the flat paint and the flat paint + FFA coat mixed with tamiya flat base doesn't produce same color? And how do you make the FFA layer became as flat as possible without the white spots?
Thank you
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Climax-Zero on September 11, 2007, 04:43:25 AM
I think this can go here...

As I can't get FFA in my country, would this (http://www.hlj.com/product/GNZB-523) be a suitable substitute if I am looking for a dull shine?
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: fredpekker on September 11, 2007, 04:27:55 PM
Future is an acrylic floor wax. Way more durable then a spray top coat, from what I hear. Out of the bottle it gives a gloss finish. I believe there's a list of substitutes for foreign countries in this very thread, as well as FF's flat base + Future formula for flat finishes.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Marc on September 12, 2007, 06:21:12 AM
If there's an equivalent in your country, it should be listed here: http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Whoover on September 18, 2007, 11:29:45 AM
Hi to everyone out there. This is my 1st post so I apologise if this has been asked/answered somewhere else before.  :unsure:

From all the info on this thread and others, I think most ppl would recommend the following;

1. After finishing your Paint. Coat with FFA.
2. Apply Panel Lines using wash technique.
3. Apply Decals.
4. Coat with FFA again. (Choose finish by amount of thinner added).

My question is about the paint/wash types. In order to do the panel line wash, must the paint being used for the wash be an enamel with FFA? I plan to use TFA to paint the model (seeing as I already have some).

Before I sign off, I just wanted to say what a superb amount of tips and techniques I have learnt so far from this forum. It has been such a help.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: makalaka on September 18, 2007, 04:55:08 PM
Hi, I remember reading something about, if you mix future with tamiya acrylic thinner it'll go on easier. I'm pretty sure that the mix ratio is 70% FFA and 30% thinner, I remember reading that somewhere. but earlier in this thread it says it's a 50:50 mix. I just want to be sure before I try it out. Can someone help me out?
Thanks, kevin
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Marc on September 19, 2007, 06:12:12 AM
Whoover: http://www.fichtenfoo.com/02GiantRobots/02c-MGHowTo.html#Lines
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Climax-Zero on September 26, 2007, 04:28:29 AM
Hi to everyone out there. This is my 1st post so I apologise if this has been asked/answered somewhere else before.  :unsure:

From all the info on this thread and others, I think most ppl would recommend the following;

1. After finishing your Paint. Coat with FFA.
2. Apply Panel Lines using wash technique.
3. Apply Decals.
4. Coat with FFA again. (Choose finish by amount of thinner added).

My question is about the paint/wash types. In order to do the panel line wash, must the paint being used for the wash be an enamel with FFA? I plan to use TFA to paint the model (seeing as I already have some).

Before I sign off, I just wanted to say what a superb amount of tips and techniques I have learnt so far from this forum. It has been such a help.

Cheers.

Just adding on to that, so after each step (Paint, Lines, Decals) you put GLOSSY FFA? Does the final coat of FFA decide what the finished look will look like? e.g Glossy after paint, Glossy after lines, Glossy after decals, and then dull finish coat = dull?

And, I'm still looking for an alternative. I can use any multipurpose cleaners and degreasers, right?
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: makalaka on October 04, 2007, 03:58:52 PM
Hey, how's it going.
So I tried to spray the FFA unthinned and it beaded on my test peace. So I took the FFA off and repainted the peace. Its a piece of plastic with a red strip of paint going down the middle. Then about ten minutes after I painted it (the paint looked dry  :unsure:) I  reapplied the FFA but this time I thinned it with tamiya acrylic thinner, 50:50. This time it went on smoothly. But there was a problem. The plastic came out all glossy and smooth but the paint was flat and felt rough. Is my problem that I didn't wait long enough to put the FFA on after the paint or is it supposed to be like that?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Title: Re: AirBrush parts Help!
Post by: xdabblex on October 24, 2007, 01:16:03 AM
Hey, what's up you cool cat?  I have a question regarding "Future Floor Wax"
I would just like to know for those how live in the states and can get this product where are you buying it.
I live in Boston,Mass it's a Major city and I can't seem to find this SC and Johnson product and where.

What states are you guys in and what stores are you getting this product at?
and is there anything else like it or similar to it that I could find in Boston?
Other floor cleaning solution that work.

Thanks again,
check you guys later.

Ooh, FF your link on the Decals Train website does not work.
Can you just rewrite it or some thing. I would really like to read that article or better yet just tell me
what is that size you set put your canvas in Illustrator to for a Custom Decal. How do you know the size to make it.
do you measure the part it's going to go on first. Then make the decal or something?

Anyway please get back to me on that.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: leifo on June 02, 2008, 06:30:40 PM
hey i have acouple of questions ummm i spayed future on my piece so i can ink after that i sprayed it with mr hobby topcoat flat and the piece is still just as gloosy and shiny as if i never spayed the thing so i ended up gettin tamaya flat base and it looks like super thick mucus i heard that u can mix it with future to make it airbrushable or can i mix it with tamaya thinner? and also im usin EYEDROPPERS so im an idiot i dont get the 40% to 70% and all that so if u can help me with how many drops of flat i use and how many drops of future, i'd really appreciate it sorry ima moron
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: mrmaigo on June 02, 2008, 06:46:14 PM
I believe spraying thinned tamaya flat doesn't work at all, you have to mix ffa with the flat (then add thinner). I personally eyeball it (and makes SURE I have enough). Haven't gotten my grubby mitts on mr hobby

I'm not sure if you wanted to mix flat with ffa or flat with thinner or ffa/flat with thinner, but the numbers don't change
40% would be 4 drops & 6 drops OR 2 & 3
70% would be 7 & 3
Everyone seems to HATE fractions  ^_^

Warning: I reserve the right to not understand any of the questions asked
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: chaos_theory on June 02, 2008, 07:54:42 PM
First let you pieces cure for a couple days, then it really depends on how flat you need you models surface as to the FFA-Flat Base- alcohol/thinner ratio. Experiment on a scrap piece to get the blend right.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: optiondrifter on September 05, 2008, 04:10:38 PM
I'd like to know how many coats of FFA would I need to airbrush on a model that will be polished using the tamiya/gunze sangyo polishing compound? i will be thinning the FFA with tamiya thinner. thank you for any help with this question.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: shaun655 on October 25, 2008, 05:03:48 PM
Hi, my question regards the final step of flat future.  I mixed my future with Tamiya flat base, but noticed that it left a hazy effect on the model. First time it wasnt really an issue with a weathered german tank, but after finishing a green Russian KV2 it stood out a bit more.  Has anyone else encountered this problem with flat future, if so how did you overcome it?

Shaun
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on October 25, 2008, 05:49:15 PM
You're probably just adding too much flat base. Measure it and make sure it's not more than 30% Future. That should help. I've heard high humidity can cause it too, but I've never experienced that.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: shaun655 on October 26, 2008, 12:13:59 PM
Thank you for the advice, I will try to remix my flat base and see if it cures the problem,

Shaun
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: bounce99 on February 04, 2009, 12:01:40 AM
can we use this as a protector for the gundam models?

(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9296/52217071sv3.th.jpg) (http://img27.imageshack.us/my.php?image=52217071sv3.jpg)
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: decoy on March 14, 2009, 04:26:13 AM
I have a question about cleaning aerograph from FFA - do you use something special? I always used special brushes for cleaning from acrylic paints, hovewer I am afraid if it is effective for cleaning from FFA
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: jling84 on September 19, 2009, 12:23:37 AM
I have a question about getting a high glossy finish with FFA.  I've sprayed FFA straight from the bottle without any flat base before inking and decals.  While the finish was glossy enough for the panel line ink to flow and the decals to slide, it wasn't glossy enough for me to use on something like the Sazabi or the Kampfer.  Anyone know how to get a really high, sharp gloss with FFA?  Can I use super fine polishing compounds on it?  Thanks!
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Marc on September 19, 2009, 03:48:24 AM
How many layers of Future did you apply?
The more you add, the glossier!
Compounds wouldwork too.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: jling84 on September 19, 2009, 08:34:10 AM
Ahhh I see.  I didn't know that more layers made it glossier.  I only sprayed one layer.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Diamond on September 21, 2009, 02:56:00 PM
Hi there - I am new to airbrushing and this forum - on my first airbrushed robot. Just tried 2 heavey coats of future on tamiya acrylics and it looks like your red bit on your sd-tallgeese fichten - a slight texture (is that orange peel effect?) - next I want to try a really glossy finish.

 Anyway I have been researching the best gloss effects and I am thinking lots of future polish layers then a sanding with 1200 grit or above and then wax compound maybe then a glossy car wax to finish? But I am new so I am stabbing in the dark a bit - what would you guys say would be the ultimate shine? I am stuck with acrylics unfortunatly and I am slightly worried about damage if I sand (maybe its not necessary anyway) but anyway tell me what you think, thanks in advance!

Hmm also just read about 'simple green' if you mix it with future you can get a top shine - anyone tried it?  Would be good to see how good it is...or if there is a better way...thanks!
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: amessier on October 08, 2009, 10:38:38 AM
Anyone know if its possible to make a clear panel using Future? 

Was thinking I could pour/paint some on a surface and when it dries pick it up.  But I dont know what surface would work best that it couldn't bond to? vegetable oiled surface?
 
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on October 08, 2009, 10:41:52 AM
probably not... I can see it shattering very easily. Never know till you try though. Might be better off saving the FFA and using it to dip something in that you cut from blister packages or clear styrene sheet.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: maddog20 on October 16, 2009, 04:54:46 AM
Has anyone had adverse effects when top-coating FFA over Gundam Markers causing them bleed all over the place? 
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on October 16, 2009, 06:31:45 AM
Most of us do not use gundam markers. They're not known for their... "quality".
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: maddog20 on October 16, 2009, 06:36:40 AM
Thank you! I will look for an alternative to Gundam Markers/Panel liners. 
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Pulse on June 07, 2010, 01:33:25 AM
Hey, how long does it take for this thing to dry or fully cure?

I'm just confused because I'm hearing different dry times from different places, someone said it dries within an hr or two and other said it takes more than a week  :twitch:

So, after painting the model and apply FFA, how long do I have to wait until I can start adding decals and panels?
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Marc on June 07, 2010, 01:00:21 PM
It can depend on how thick your coat is. If it's pretty thin, the drying time is short. Let it dry overnight if you're not sure.

A week seems excessive.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: mvm3897 on June 07, 2010, 02:38:36 PM
Ditto.  If you thin it drying time is less.  I have done decals after 4 hours of drying.  Now it's not cured, but dry.  Those are 2 different things. You can work with the Future after it's dry but handling should be kept to a minimum.  Should be fully cured with in 24-48 hours.  This depends on temp. and humidity.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Quaos on June 17, 2010, 12:50:06 PM
What do you guys use as an alternate to FFA+Tamiya Flat Base for a flat finish? I just can't seem to get the right mixture without hazy, white spots. Perhaps it's the quantity I'm spraying?
Would love to hear some alternates though!
Thanks
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: mvm3897 on June 17, 2010, 01:19:06 PM
What do you guys use as an alternate to FFA+Tamiya Flat Base for a flat finish? I just can't seem to get the right mixture without hazy, white spots. Perhaps it's the quantity I'm spraying?
Would love to hear some alternates though!
Thanks

Good old Testors Dulcoat is AWESOME stuff.  I just used it on the kit I am finishing tonight.  It's about as flat as you can get and it dries pretty fast and it's like only $4 a can which should be enough for 2-3 MG kits.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Quaos on June 17, 2010, 02:56:39 PM
You said "can" so is it this stuff? It's safe to spray over Tamiya acrylics?
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1992/dullcote.jpg
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: mvm3897 on June 17, 2010, 04:09:17 PM
Yup, Thats the way the old cans look like, the new ones are whit.  Dulcoat is Laquer based so you can use it on anything.  Just do lite coats.  I do 3 lite coats and it works great.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Quaos on June 17, 2010, 04:19:45 PM
Thanks a lot! I'll give it go tomorrow night after I go buy a can.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Asmodeous on March 28, 2011, 10:08:26 AM
After reading the entire post I have a new question.  I have heard you can create your own custom clear colors using FFA and food coloring.  Does this mixture have to be sprayed with an airbrush or can it be applied with a cotton ball like plain FFA?  On a similar note does anyone know anyway to make a clear "smoke" color with the food color and FFA blend?  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: clee-cm on March 28, 2011, 02:07:44 PM
Yes, you can create your own transparent colors with future, the idea was discussed on this thread.

http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=5151.0 (http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=5151.0)

I have not tried using food coloring, but your results will vary depending on what you decide to use.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Asmodeous on March 28, 2011, 02:50:19 PM
Food coloring can be used as mentioned here: http://fichtenfoo.net/blog/custom-clear-colors/  I was asking a slightly different question.  FF has mentioned simply using a cotton ball to apply the plain un-thinned future and I was curious to know if future with food coloring can be applied in this manner.  Thank you for your answer.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: CompactDisc on May 23, 2011, 04:40:48 AM
Decided to take apart one of the first Mgs I ever made to give it a bit of paint.

I have been using "Pledge One Go" and my results on other models have turned out really nice.

First couple of coats and everything was going fine until I tried to finish up with a matte coat.

I think I put in way too much flat base in my mix, came out cloudy and with a few white spots, if i go over it with a nail buffer it I can bring it back to a shine, but the finish isn't perfect

My question is can I spray another coat of future over it and bring it back to a gloss or will I need to sand the cloudy finish back and start again?

(http://i.imgur.com/OzNzp.jpg)
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Altitron on February 27, 2013, 05:23:51 PM
Does anyone brush Future on? Or is it only recommended to attempt with an airbrush?

 - Alty
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: FichtenFoo on February 27, 2013, 07:48:10 PM
I do both and more. You can dip it too, but that can be tricky watching for bubbles, dust settling, and making sure the excess wicks off onto paper towels. Like anything, all the methods just take practice.
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Altitron on March 02, 2013, 01:23:53 PM
Roger. I just brought home an empty spray bottle (was used for general surface cleaners). I will give it a shot sometime this weekend, as well as brushing. There's a few small details on the figure that I want to stand out with a high gloss finish. Thanks!

 - Alty
Title: Re: Future Floor Acrylic Questions (ask 'em here)
Post by: Cecil on April 02, 2014, 06:33:25 PM
Hi everyone.  Sorry to revive an old thread.  Has anyone tried mixing FFA with GSI (Gunze) Mr. Color Flat Base (the lacquer-based line of stuff, not the Mr. Hobby acrylic that's super rare in the US market)?  Does the lacquer base of the Mr. Color Flat Base affect the integrity of the FFA?  Reason I ask is I used to use the Mr. Hobby acrylic flat base to mix with FFA but ran out and stores around me don't carry Mr. Hobby any more.  My local shop carries Mr. Color stuff but not Tamiya, so if the Mr. Color Flat Base works, I'll get that, otherwise I'll have to special order some Tamiya.  Thanks in advance!