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Old FFForums Archive => Model Help* (Check Stickies and Search First) => Assembly/Scratchbuilding => Topic started by: Oliphont on January 20, 2007, 08:14:33 PM

Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Oliphont on January 20, 2007, 08:14:33 PM
Ello,

I was workin on a NO Grade 1/100 Freedom (alot of seams) when i really started to analyze my techniques and thought that for very long seams simply using putty over them was a very inefficient technique as it required too much sanding...

...so what my exact question is. I want to start using Cement to weld the pieces together; however, i do have 'Testors Cement for plastic models' will this work as well as the Tamiya Cement for welding the parts? because after close inspection of using the testors, i didnt see much welding taking place. Is it bassically the same formula?

I did search for seams, welding, and tamiya cement, with not much clarity to my question

thanks guys,
Felipe (Oli)
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: FichtenFoo on January 20, 2007, 08:26:18 PM
No, it's a different formula. You'll have much better results with the Tamiya.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Oliphont on January 20, 2007, 09:07:04 PM
K, thats what i figured from the pictures ive seen, ill pick up a bottle of each.

Thanks FF.

Was it a misconception to use alot of putty for just seams??
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Oliphont on January 21, 2007, 12:55:09 PM
OK, so i hit up my local hobbyshop...and they were out of the regular Tamiya Cement, so i picked up a bottle of 'Tamiya Extra Thin Cement' and 'Tenax 7R Space Age Plastic Welder'...

...so heres my question, i know most people use the Extra thin for topical use more than in between pieces, but will it work well (to weld) the pieces together if i use it in between the pieces rather than on top?

also, has anyone used the Tenax? Im afraid it mite be too strong, but im gonna try it out with scrap, just wondering if anyone else has used this.

thanks
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Mindless on January 21, 2007, 02:32:31 PM
Quote from: "Oliphont"
...so heres my question, i know most people use the Extra thin for topical use more than in between pieces, but will it work well (to weld) the pieces together if i use it in between the pieces rather than on top?


Yes, at least the cement I'm using.

Also, cllamping the two parts together will ensure a tight seam (less putty afterwards).
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: clee-cm on January 22, 2007, 02:19:37 PM
Quote from: "Oliphont"
also, has anyone used the Tenax? Im afraid it mite be too strong, but im gonna try it out with scrap, just wondering if anyone else has used this.

thanks


I have used Tenax, I love the stuff... But you will have to use a paint brush to apply the stuff, but it works great; one important thing is that Tenax does evaporate quick, you have to apply the cement and quickly join the pieces together.

There is one cement called Ambro Weld, it works on most types of plastics including ABS, PVC, in addition to styrene. But I have not been able to find the stuff any more...
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Oliphont on January 22, 2007, 03:10:56 PM
Quote from: "clee-cm"
Quote from: "Oliphont"
also, has anyone used the Tenax? Im afraid it mite be too strong, but im gonna try it out with scrap, just wondering if anyone else has used this.

thanks


I have used Tenax, I love the stuff... But you will have to use a paint brush to apply the stuff, but it works great; one important thing is that Tenax does evaporate quick, you have to apply the cement and quickly join the pieces together.

There is one cement called Ambro Weld, it works on most types of plastics including ABS, PVC, in addition to styrene. But I have not been able to find the stuff any more...


Yeah i was rather dissapointed to noticed it didnt have a brush built in, so i have to waste one of mine now >.>. Any tips on using it? Whats a good wait time to start sanding after welding with it? and any other random tidbits?
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: clee-cm on January 22, 2007, 04:40:04 PM
This is how I used it: Since Tenax evaporates/dries fast, make sure the part is properly test fitted, prepared and cleaned  first before you start applying Tenax. With a brush, apply Tenax to both halves of the parts that will be joining, then with light pressure, join the parts together and hold them together for about 30 seconds or so. Your setting time will vary depending on how dry or humid you home is. Since San Diego is so dry, I have to apply several coats to the part since it evaporates quick.

After the glue sets, you will need to use some sand paper or a soft file and clean up the joint that has been glued together...

Tenax works fine for UCHG and MG Gundam models, for any model that has non-Styrene  Plastic parts, this is where I had trouble with Tenax. I built the DKM Scharnhorst, Strike Freedom Gundam, and a Sazabi using the Tenax, so I know it works...

If you are not sure how it will work, test it out on some unused model parts first.

Well, good luck on your model...
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: GlauG on January 22, 2007, 04:58:31 PM
Quote from: "clee-cm"
There is one cement called Ambro Weld, it works on most types of plastics including ABS, PVC, in addition to styrene. But I have not been able to find the stuff any more...


I use one called "Ambroid Proweld", sounds pretty similar.  I've managed to ruin at least 2 kits by spilling it on parts which it's then dissolved... X_x  I pick it up in hobby stores in the UK, but it's on the expensive side ($12 a bottle, I think?).
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: fredpekker on January 22, 2007, 07:49:22 PM
Plastruct has a product called Plastic Weld that sounds like its similar to the Tenax you have, but the brush comes with the bottle. Works prettty much the same way.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Oliphont on January 22, 2007, 08:02:30 PM
After much consideration, im not liking the Tenax too much. It dries way too quickly, and doesnt go on as thick as id like it. Time to wait for my local hobby to get some regular Tamiya Cement in :(...the Extra Thin wasnt bad for in between the pieces, but i think the regular kind would work better for me
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: clee-cm on January 22, 2007, 09:33:33 PM
Quote from: "Oliphont"
After much consideration, im not liking the Tenax too much. It dries way too quickly, and doesnt go on as thick as id like it. Time to wait for my local hobby to get some regular Tamiya Cement in :(...the Extra Thin wasnt bad for in between the pieces, but i think the regular kind would work better for me


Yep - I had the same problem with Tenax, it works great when you get the hang of using it. But the quick evaporation is a problem that I also hate.

GlauG - "Ambroid Proweld", that is the stuff, I remember the product but not the exact name. Thanks for the help. Yes It works great, I also destroyed the veneer on a coffee table and a side table when I spilled part of the bottle twice.

I recommend Ambroid Proweld, this stuff works great. If you find it, get it...  :D
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: GlauG on January 23, 2007, 12:01:18 AM
A suggestion, on the assumption that the Tenax works like Proweld...  I find it usually works better if you hold the two parts you're joining together gently, then paint the stuff along the seam before squeezing.  I have these little springy clamp things I use for holding stuff like Gundam arms and legs together while they set, and it's usually a great bond once it's set.  If I paint it on both halves of something then put them together, half the time it doesn't set properly.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Oliphont on January 23, 2007, 08:08:51 AM
Quote from: "GlauG"
A suggestion, on the assumption that the Tenax works like Proweld...  I find it usually works better if you hold the two parts you're joining together gently, then paint the stuff along the seam before squeezing.  I have these little springy clamp things I use for holding stuff like Gundam arms and legs together while they set, and it's usually a great bond once it's set.  If I paint it on both halves of something then put them together, half the time it doesn't set properly.


Yeah i was using clams, i think the only thing was the pieces i was welding were fairly large, so it took me a while to get em together with full coverage of the solution
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: clee-cm on January 23, 2007, 10:13:23 AM
I have used both Proweld and Tenax, I think that Proweld is better than Tenax. Tenax is not good for very large pieces, it evaporates to quickly, with Proweld, you can join large pieces together.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: FichtenFoo on January 23, 2007, 10:15:57 AM
I think this thread officially deserves a sticky. It's now called the Glue Questions and Tips thread.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Maschinen Krueger on January 23, 2007, 10:33:45 AM
Does anyone notice a smell from a a bottle of Tamiya extra thin cement, even if the cap is screwed tight and it has sat for days with out being opened? I keep my stored in a cabinet, when I open the door, woosh, the smell of Tamiya cement right in the face. Man that stuff is strong.

BTW, Tamiya Extra thin is great stuff. You can create a weld bead with two parts on the seam. I brush both halves of the part to be joined, place together w/o a lot of force, and then hit the seam again with the Tamiya cement, let capilary action draw the glue down the part, and your fingertip, and then clamp or just press firmly for a few seconds, up to a min.

This also works with Testor's cement, though Testors' is less agressive and seems are more prone to break unless sufficient welding has occured.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: zerobxu on January 23, 2007, 10:44:18 AM
The creation of this sticky coincides with a wonderful discovery I've made: CA glue is the best cut-sealer I've found. Not only does it glue the skin together, but it protects it! After I laid open my thumb with a large serrated bread knife on Saturday, I thought I'd need stitches. Nope. CA to the rescue, and all is well.

Remember, folks, that's C-A, and not B-A-N-D-A-I-D
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: oteebzo on January 23, 2007, 10:46:25 AM
A friend of mine was in the Marines and he said that same thing . That when they are in the field they carry super glue with them for that same reason.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: fulcy on January 23, 2007, 10:49:42 AM
Super glue was originally developed for the armed forces, during vietnam, for use as a field applied suture.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: zerobxu on January 23, 2007, 10:53:33 AM
Scarring may be a factor down the line with amateur glue sutures, but hey--Pain fades, chicks dig scars, and glory is forever.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Artic Fox on January 23, 2007, 11:09:09 AM
to go with what Fulcy said, duct tape was used for the same thing
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Major Blah on January 23, 2007, 11:12:19 AM
I wear safety glasses when I use CA glue, sounds a bit extreme but it's apparently one of the most dangerous thing you can do to your eyes.  So I rather be safe then sorry.  :wink:
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Oliphont on January 23, 2007, 11:55:35 AM
Quote from: "zerobxu"
The creation of this sticky coincides with a wonderful discovery I've made: CA glue is the best cut-sealer I've found. Not only does it glue the skin together, but it protects it! After I laid open my thumb with a large serrated bread knife on Saturday, I thought I'd need stitches. Nope. CA to the rescue, and all is well.

Remember, folks, that's C-A, and not B-A-N-D-A-I-D


Word, ive xacto'ed my thumbs a few times, an as an avid guitar player, that poses issues...so i super glue or CA em. Stevie Ray Vaughan would super glue his fingers to his elbows or something like that to get extra skin on em o.o (or so they say).
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: clee-cm on January 23, 2007, 04:37:37 PM
When I was working at the post office, we were given pieces of duct tape or scotch tape to close a cut when we ran out of band aids.

You learn something new each day, super glue was used to close wounds :), but you need to be careful, certain types of super glue contain a small amount of cyanide, so be careful. :sherlock:
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: D:Fuse on January 23, 2007, 10:53:47 PM
What is the most common type of clamp you guys use to hold the glued pieces together that does not actually deform or crush the plastic?

As for gluing pieces together which work better, gluing both side before putting it together or gluing the seam after the pieces are snapped together?
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Oliphont on January 23, 2007, 11:07:23 PM
Quote from: "D:Fuse"
What is the most common type of clamp you guys use to hold the glued pieces together that does not actually deform or crush the plastic?

As for gluing pieces together which work better, gluing both side before putting it together or gluing the seam after the pieces are snapped together?


I got these cheap bo-bo like multi colored clamps at god knows where that arent very strong, but enuf for models, and they arent abrasive on the parts...ive seen another memeber with them....look really cheesy
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Mindless on January 24, 2007, 12:06:56 AM
Quote from: "zerobxu"
The creation of this sticky coincides with a wonderful discovery I've made: CA glue is the best cut-sealer I've found. Not only does it glue the skin together, but it protects it! After I laid open my thumb with a large serrated bread knife on Saturday, I thought I'd need stitches. Nope. CA to the rescue, and all is well.

Remember, folks, that's C-A, and not B-A-N-D-A-I-D


That's what I've used during all my years in modeling to quickly heal cuts when I've slipped with my hobby knife. Very effective.

Also, you don't have to worry about taking it off. After a few days, it's all gone and the cut is hopefully healed.  :)

Quote from: "D:Fuse"
What is the most common type of clamp you guys use to hold the glued pieces together that does not actually deform or crush the plastic?

As for gluing pieces together which work better, gluing both side before putting it together or gluing the seam after the pieces are snapped together?


I use these: Wolfcraft Clamping Tools (http://www.wolfcraft.co.uk/jcatalog_generated/en/products/product_groups/04_index.html)

They come in a great variety that can be used for different purposes. Works great. Highly recommended.

Regarding how I glue: I first glue then seam then clamp the parts together, then I put a couple of layers (two or three) of glue over the seam, then I start working on the part.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: GlauG on January 24, 2007, 01:52:25 AM
Quote from: "D:Fuse"
What is the most common type of clamp you guys use to hold the glued pieces together that does not actually deform or crush the plastic?

As for gluing pieces together which work better, gluing both side before putting it together or gluing the seam after the pieces are snapped together?


I use cheap plastic spring clamps from the local cheapo-mart or my mini vice, depending on the part.  I need to line my vice with rubber or wood or something again though, as it's scratched a few parts recently with the metal edges...

As for gluing, it depends on the glue I'm using.  With thin welding suff, I tend to paint down the seam, but for thicker poly cement or CA glue I usually stick some on one/both sides and then snap it.
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: clee-cm on January 24, 2007, 08:15:11 AM
I have used the paper clams that they sell in the office supply stores, they work fine for holding glued model parts together (I was building a airplane at the time). I used the large ones, that clip together thick stacks of paper.

I also did some a search for Ambroid Proweld, here is the URL for the manufacturer's website.

Ambroid (http://www.ambroid.com/Ambroid.html)
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: pu_rplecow on January 29, 2007, 11:52:48 PM
Anyone knows how to dissolve latex glue without using corrosive liquids that would damage plastics?
Title: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Lingwendil on January 31, 2007, 10:40:28 AM
I've always used CA for most parts, but lately I found my testors, I hate the stuff. Testors is too goopy for me, I'm gettin some tamiya soon. I've heard good things about that " The Orange" stuff though, if I can find some I'll try it.

Oh, and BTW,
Quote from: "zerobxu"
Pain fades, chicks dig scars, and glory is forever.



New. Effin. Sig.
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Major Blah on March 15, 2007, 07:35:34 AM
Based on the recommendation from clee-cm and Irk, i picked up a bottle of Ambroid Proweld yseterday.  What I say is "wow"  it's so much better than Tamiya glue that I've been using up till now.  And it's cheaper than the Tamiya as well (local art supplies store sells a bottle for $4 CND).

And it is very easy to tip over, I copied Irk's trick and hot-glued the bottle to a piece of wood.  Thanks guys for the good recommendation! 8)
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: FichtenFoo on March 15, 2007, 08:11:23 AM
This is why I like this place... always new and great tips to learn! I'm going to have to pick up some of this and try it out.

So how is it compared to the smell of the Tamiya glue? That stuff... can I get a shout-out for ventilation? :lol: :sick:
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Major Blah on March 15, 2007, 08:15:59 AM
Same pleasant smell that makes me go all happy inside.  :lol:

I thiink the basic "ingredient" or chemical makeup is the same as the other "glue" like Tamiya, just that it's faster, less viscous, and dries faster (maybe stronger too).
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Irk on March 15, 2007, 07:45:57 PM
And it is very easy to tip over,

He, He! Yeah Major - I had to use the coaster idea on my SECOND bottle!  :lol: Oh and one more thing FF you could get cancer by using this glue but apparently only in California! (according to the label) :lol:
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: FichtenFoo on March 15, 2007, 07:46:57 PM
Oh and one more thing FF you could get cancer by using this glue but apparently only in California! (according to the label) :lol:

Heh... same with the Tamiya though. :lol:
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: oteebzo on March 16, 2007, 10:53:29 AM
GOOD THING WE'RE NOT IN CALI!!!! :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: Soul3ss on August 22, 2008, 06:01:08 PM
I've used Tamiya Cement (orange), once dry it's too hard for me to sand off. I usually end up messing up the surface and any edges and detail and so on. I've used Tamiya Extra Thin Cement (green). It doesn't really ooze through the seam, and I add quite a bit, but it is easy to sand though.

Any recommendations on some other type of cement/glue for seams, to make sanding and use of less putty easier?

I've heard people use Zap-a-Gap. Is it any good? Or is there something else out there?

I'd like something easy to sand off, like Tamiya Extra Thin Cement once it's dry.

Thanks a bundle. Back to work...
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: clee-cm on August 22, 2008, 07:01:19 PM
I have not used Tamiya orange, green cement, or Gunze Sangyo Mr Cement, but I have used Ambroid Pro Weld, Tenax, and Plastruct liquid cements. All three work great, but Tenax dries the fastest, and Ambroid is really strong, I have used it to re-glue broken off ABS Plastic parts for my car in the past. Ambroid works great, but if you are not careful will remove the plastic vernier of off of your desk of table.

Both, Tenax and Plastruct don't damage the surface to badly, the glue will evaporate fairly quick. Tenax evaporates the fastest of all the brands I have used. if you are luck, the liquid cement will not distort the surface detail to much, you can use some fine sand paper to minimize the damage. Plastruct does dry quick enough and will not damage the surface unless you touch it while it is wet. I have also used testor's liquid cement, personally I think it is a waste of money.

Zap-a-Gap is basically super glue, it comes in thick or thin types, and gap filling, like any type of super glue you have to allow it time to bond to the surface.

Happy modeling...
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: CidHighwind on June 02, 2009, 07:21:48 PM
Where can you buy the Ambroid Proweld?  I'm curious too now.  If its better and cheaper than Tamiya, thats great!  Shipping costs kill me when I get Tamiya.
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: chaos_theory on June 02, 2009, 07:26:43 PM
http://fichtenfoo.net/forum/index.php?topic=1419.0   :secret police:
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: CidHighwind on June 02, 2009, 08:01:23 PM
I apologize if I made a mistake; Ive already scanned those websites linked there, did a google product search, checked ebay and amazon.  What I did find was 5$ for 2oz.  Doesnt sound like much of a deal.

OR, if you were suggesting I ask there, then I'm sorry, I asked here because it was the only place I've seen mentioning that particular glue.

However, I did stumble across another variety on Hobbylink that was also mentioned here that I can try.
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: chaos_theory on June 02, 2009, 08:28:19 PM
No, no, right place to ask was here. Its just nice to know you had searched first. :D

And actually $5 is what I pay for 2oz. bottle at my LHS. Its a SUPER thin chemical that melts the plastic to bond it together. The little bottle goes a long way with commercial plastic kits. If you're scratch building buy 3 bottles.
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: CidHighwind on June 03, 2009, 09:09:14 AM
Thank you!
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: JohnLogan on September 18, 2011, 06:51:43 AM
Just read this thread. Curious if any one uses methaleythalkitone (MEK) for styrene besides me?? ???
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: thejurasikfrank on December 14, 2011, 10:26:47 AM
Hi guys,
I guess the "Glue Questions and Tips" subject seem like the right place for my question:
I'm making a few mods on the ertl Millenium Falcon. One of these mods requires adding brass rods for plumbing. I know some of you guys already done that but, after following and ready about some of your builds, I didn't read anything on what your using to glue/attach/bond brass rods on plastic.
CA perhaps?
Thanks for your help and cheers all!
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: thejurasikfrank on December 16, 2011, 09:32:54 AM
Anyone? I feel sooo alone... :D
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: fulcy on December 16, 2011, 06:20:49 PM
CA should work fine - you want to make sure the brass is clean, and maybe rough up the surface of the brass with some steel wool, but that should do it.
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: thejurasikfrank on December 16, 2011, 07:20:05 PM
I'll try that.
Thanks for your help!
Cheers
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: thejurasikfrank on December 16, 2011, 07:31:41 PM
Any specefic brand/thickness I should look for?
Thanks
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: nico on December 28, 2011, 12:56:11 AM
I always use two kinds liquid and gel CA. I prefer gel but sometimes it's better to use liquid CA.
Title: Re: Glue Questions and Tips
Post by: thejurasikfrank on December 28, 2011, 07:28:45 AM
Thanks for the tips.
I'm off to my own hands-on experience.
Cheers